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KineticTenacious
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PostSubject: KT Leaving Star Wars   Sat Aug 08, 2009 10:14 pm

I was heart broken when I went to see if the Mando'a chart had been updated and I found this instead. T-T. Karen Traviss has apparently decided that after Imperial Commando #2, she's leaving the SW arena.

The blog
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Catika
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PostSubject: Re: KT Leaving Star Wars   Sat Aug 08, 2009 10:38 pm

I just scraped my face against the counter in anguish. Now I have to read REAL LITERATURE if I want to read KT? This is terrible. Neutral
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KineticTenacious
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PostSubject: Re: KT Leaving Star Wars   Sat Aug 08, 2009 11:16 pm

I only read one of her other books. I didn't actually care for it very much. Not sure why.


Last edited by KineticTenacious on Sun Aug 09, 2009 12:12 am; edited 1 time in total
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Anecdote
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PostSubject: Re: KT Leaving Star Wars   Sat Aug 08, 2009 11:28 pm

What are these continuity issues that she's referring to, I'm wondering?

Quote :
Rather than switch to vastly altered storylines in which many of the
characters whose lives you've been following for the last five years
wouldn't exist
, or move across to other SW areas, I decided this was a
natural point at which to make the break. I've never given up on
anything easily, and I knew it would disappoint my readers, so you can
rest assured that I spent a lot of time trying to find ways to make the
canon work in the longer term. But it's a circle I can't square. Maybe
someone else can, but I can't. My specialty - what companies hire me
for - is to create substantial military/political series with long
character arcs in an increasingly detailed world. That kind of product
doesn't lend itself to quick fixes or radical changes mid-stream.
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PostSubject: Re: KT Leaving Star Wars   Sun Aug 09, 2009 12:08 am

Without wanting to seem like a pretentious asshole, having read her non-SW and original stories I can fully understand and support her decision.

Catika wrote:
I just scraped my face against the counter in anguish. Now I have to read REAL LITERATURE if I want to read KT? This is terrible. Neutral
Believe when I say it's a leap when you first open City of Pearl but the story really drives you on. I found it easy to read because I was used to KT's style, but it contains more colloquialisms and it's even more exciting on many other aspects.

To answer your question, Anecdote, I think this is about the outside directives given around the plots, arcs and character "screen time" that all authors have to deal with when working together (for example in the Legacy of the Force series). Also, think about the Clone Wars and how we're getting Mandos next. She is facing the same troubles that we, fan fiction writers, often bump our heads into except that she can't take too many artistic liberties to reach a satisfying goal.

Traviss loves her freedom when she writes and it's what makes her great, this is why I believe she's better off doing her own thing. I'm going to write a short review of her Wess'har Wars series so you guys can grasp the depth of my point: her SW novels are good, but not up to her potential.

I'll be looking forward to reading Imperial Commando x2. Hell, I even think they're going to be awesome if they'll be the last SW issues from her. But in the end I'm not worried. She explicitly states in her blog that most of her income doesn't come from Star Wars. I won't miss her because she's able to write with passion and whatever she puts her heart into always catches my attention.

After reading her blog I'm getting excited about her own new military series she mentioned. I hope it's full of foul language and disturbing details! (for a change from the squeaky clean SW)
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PostSubject: Re: KT Leaving Star Wars   Sun Aug 09, 2009 2:25 am

Though I've yet to read her Wess'Har series (it's on my to-read-list), her decision seems to be a good one. With Imperial Commando 2, there should still be plenty of time to tie up loose ends for the established characters/story, so no worries there. Plus, this allows her more work time to spend on writing stuff that she actually wants to write, which is awesome.

Here's another vote for "foul language and disturbing details"! Laughing
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PostSubject: Re: KT Leaving Star Wars   Sun Aug 09, 2009 4:22 am

I dunno what to say tbh....
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PostSubject: Re: KT Leaving Star Wars   Sun Aug 09, 2009 6:20 am

It's kind of like...Damn.

She certainly brought a fresh, new exciting perspective into the Star Wars universe because I gave up on so MANY of the other books and storylines. I hated the Vong series, and I just had no desire to read the Legacy of the Force series. Her RepCom series was the first series in a long time that I ranted and raved over. I peddled the books to everyone who I knew was a Star Wars fan, trying to convince them that the Clone Wars were more than just droids and Clones killing Jedi.

But, after reading KT's blog (thanks for that KineticTenacious!) I do understand why she has to move on. We should have expected that the Lucas companies wouldn't seriously take her work and fit it into the canon. She created something so unique that it broke away from the "black and white" thinking that seems to be surrounding the Star Wars mystique.

I actually found that I was attracted to KT's work because it went outside the box, and she opened my eyes beyond the Jedi. She's the only author that made me understand Clones and Mandalorians and have a whole new appreciation for them.

I'll be devastated come the time I read the last sentence in Imperial Commando #2, so I just hope she ties the ends convincingly and sturdily. I don't want anyone else to take over her characters and butcher them. That would be a sacrilege to the exciting galaxy she created where I learned to question everything in Star Wars and look outside the basic fundamentals of "good and evil." Her characters have their beautiful shades of gray, and it was those shades of gray that she taught me...because prior to her RepCom work, I only looked in absolutes.

I suppose I shall now take Daennika's advice and peruse KT's other stories. I could use a new book to read, and maybe it's time for me go even further out of the box. Wink
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PostSubject: Re: KT Leaving Star Wars   Sun Aug 09, 2009 6:57 am

Very well said and agreed!

I'm still kinda shocked, as I made myself believe such thigns were impossible, shows how one can take things for granted...well I'll certainly be thinking outside the box now.
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Daennika
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PostSubject: Re: KT Leaving Star Wars   Sun Aug 09, 2009 11:49 am

Let me assess the hard facts here that is to say the release of CW season 2 with the arrival of Mandalorians in the daylight, in a half hour kid's show. The single thing that could really "pull the rug under KT's feet" is the existence of the Cuy'val Dar and their impact on the clones. No Mandalorian elite trainers = no mando subculture for the clone army. No Republic Commandos.

This doesn't mean the end of Mandalorians plain and simply. Look at this community for example: I was careful not to make it either Clone-specific or Fett-specific because those elements are too tied to the main characters in SW. They're either good or bad and, in the strict sense of the term, just plain evil in the end. That's not the kind of conflict I want to see on MandoBoard because we should let the Jedi have their own war against the Sith and vice versa.

You may like the Fetts, you may like Clones, you may speak in mando'a - I don't give a damn because we all have our part in keeping the "culture" alive. So what if the RepCom series becomes non-canon, does that make the characters less real than what was left unchanged?

What's done is done, I say. And in the future when fans of the CW will come to us to learn more about Mandalorians, we will tell them what we know, what happened while they were thinking that Star Wars was just good vs evil.

What good would come from this change is the strip of all Clones = Mandalorians = Good guys confusion. How many times have I read stories (fan fictions) of clones all being fluent in mando'a, all being grassroots mandalorian and all ending up on Mandalore at some point? The truth is that we all seek one-sided characters: "Hey, if this bad guy is not completely evil, then he must be a good guy!" WRONG. Life is not that simple and it takes work to grasp, accept and depict the concept with a character. The easiest solution for LucasFilm was just to eclipse the problem and make Mandalorians evil, as Fett was in the classic trilogy, and as they probably will be in TOR.

Having mandalorian clone troopers, Mandos working for the Republic and Jedi going Mando onscreen just doesn't cut it for the general public. But there are lots of other gruesome details in the EU that didn't raise that much attention because LFL aren't mentioning them in their TV show yet.

Just remember the main lines of my rant:
- we're getting more exposure!
- we keep the mando spirit alive!
- let's not cry and mourn, there will be more mandalorian adventures, just less clones (haha, yay for me!)
- Mandalorians are neutral: some may be more evil than the average while others may be nicer than most, but people are not ready to grasp that idea.
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Anecdote
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PostSubject: Re: KT Leaving Star Wars   Mon Aug 10, 2009 2:24 am

I offer up this thread on the SW:TOR forums if anyone wants to see the mob train of delirious fanboys jeering over KT leaving.

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=58471
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Tracyn Ordo
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PostSubject: Re: KT Leaving Star Wars   Mon Aug 10, 2009 3:40 am

As much as this sucks! I can see why she has made this decision and support her fully as a fan of her work. However it is still going to be a bittersweet day when IC 2 is released. What she has done for us mando fans is huge! Increasing general awareness of the mandalorians as a culture for the wider Star Wars fan group and expanding hugely on the culture and life style of mandalorians... And hell... Now we are even up there with Star Trek (klingon) and Lord of the Rings (elvish) having our own fictional language, and we owe it all to KT! We all have a lot to thank her for and therefore while I personally wish she didn't have all these canon, continuity issues to deal with, I fully understand her decision to pull out of Star Wars, and will continue to support her in any way I can...

I'll always support you Kar'buir!

Tracyn
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Tracyn Ordo
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PostSubject: Re: KT Leaving Star Wars   Mon Aug 10, 2009 3:46 am

Anecdote wrote:
I offer up this thread on the SW:TOR forums if anyone wants to see the mob train of delirious fanboys jeering over KT leaving.

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=58471
Honestly, I cant even be bothered giving a s**t! They can jeer and gloat all they want... I don't care... i think KT is a brilliant author and in many ways she has added a new dimension/perspective to star wars and it is the better for it so no, I dont want to see the fanboys in all their ungrateful delirium... And frankly I cant be arsed even thinking about arguing with them, I have better things to do with my time than waste it in a fruitless arguement with people that are quite frankly arseholes!

Tracyn
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Kote
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PostSubject: Re: KT Leaving Star Wars   Tue Aug 11, 2009 4:07 am

Daennika wrote:
Just remember the main lines of my rant:
- we're getting more exposure!
- we keep the mando spirit alive!
- let's not cry and mourn, there will be more mandalorian adventures, just less clones (haha, yay for me!)
- Mandalorians are neutral: some may be more evil than the average while others may be nicer than most, but people are not ready to grasp that idea.

It'll be my mantra from now on, because, really, Traviss's SW books not only introduced me to a whole new piece of the Galaxy Far Away, they've revived my a bit rusty interest in the Star Wars in general.

But I do understand her point. Star Wars is an exciting fandom, but as soon as you become an official part of it, it restrains you and drinks you dry. I guess I'll have to look for her other books, because I like her style and I'm not yet ready to part with her.
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PostSubject: Re: KT Leaving Star Wars   Tue Aug 11, 2009 7:11 am

The over all question after seeing the CW2 trailor was who was the Mandalorian. Hes obviously some form of leader. The question was asked "could he be a new Mand'alor?" Well if you go by KTs latest book that would mean he's Shysa... doesnt look Like the Shysa we all know. Maybe its Alpha-02? but I dont think hes left the clone army this soon, certainly hasnt built up followers yet. The story of this Mandalorian could possibly conflict with much of KTs work... or hes just some gang leader of a group of Mando.

It could also be like was said before. Maybe they undo the story of the cuy'val dar. No more nulls, no more kal'buir... no more kals kids. I mean we already seen clips a handful of Mandalorians attacking Obi Wan. So if they represent the Mandalorian nation... why would their be Cuy'val Dar?

Now dont get me wrong when I say this because I like most of Karen Traviss SW books, and Ive traded emails with her several times and have nothing but good dealings with her. However as is the nature of SW EU she stepped on other peoples storylines so cant really complain that it happen to hers. Nature of the beast.
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Tracyn Ordo
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PostSubject: Re: KT Leaving Star Wars   Tue Aug 11, 2009 10:30 pm

DoseOrdo wrote:
Maybe its Alpha-02? but I dont think hes left the clone army this soon, certainly hasnt built up followers yet.
Spar left the GAR before they even deployed from Kamino, with the help of Mij Gilimar I believe, but someone correct me if I am wrong...
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Kote
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PostSubject: Re: KT Leaving Star Wars   Wed Aug 12, 2009 2:24 am

Tracyn Ordo wrote:
Spar left the GAR before they even deployed from Kamino, with the help of Mij Gilimar I believe, but someone correct me if I am wrong...

Yes, that's how it was, but wasn't it Rav Bralor who helped him?
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PostSubject: Re: KT Leaving Star Wars   Wed Aug 12, 2009 4:08 am

Daenn'ika that was a great post there Smile

I kinda feel the same so now all that's left is to wait for the books to come out, and wave off our favourite characters off into the distance and remember them ( and KT's work ) for what they have brought us.

Oya!
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Anecdote
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PostSubject: Re: KT Leaving Star Wars   Wed Aug 12, 2009 4:50 am

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUl6a7FGAyU

A video response by someone who goes by the 'net name "blur" (if you frequented the SW:TOR forums towards the beginning, should be somewhat familiar)

I like podcasts so... thought you guys may/may not appreciate someone else's response to it. 'Course, it mostly echoes our own, but hey.
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ForestRaptor
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PostSubject: Re: KT Leaving Star Wars   Wed Aug 12, 2009 5:36 am

The name Blur still rings pretty big bell. We diverged sometimes when talking about Mandalorians in TOR but in the end what he says I relate to and agree with!

"It's a bummer" Sad
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PostSubject: Re: KT Leaving Star Wars   Mon Aug 17, 2009 2:23 pm

I have had this book on my shelf for a while and completely forgot about it until now. It's a Gears of War book, and, surprise surprise, it's by KT. Maybe that book was the beginning of her straying from the path of the light. Or, Mando, actually.
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PostSubject: Re: KT Leaving Star Wars   Tue Aug 18, 2009 8:45 pm

As Daennika and I were chatting earlier, I went on a personal rant about this situation.

I, honestly, am only disturbed by LFL's way of pulling the rug out from under her for her established work, which I find in a professional manner all sorts of disrespectful.

But, from there, I don't care.

I've made it no secret for my disdain and hate for the Clone War cartoons. Hell, I never even cared for the original 2D CW cartoon shorts (even though they kinda grew on me and I do own both discs) but that's not the point.

I find the rest of this just makes my reason to hate TCW even more, because it gives fuel to my fire of smugness.

<soapbox rant>

Everyone ranted and raved how glorious TCW were. But it wasn't enough. MANY began to ride KT's proverbial phallus so hard that they might as well have a scrotum wrapped around their heads. KT's work drove many into a frenzie for more Mandalorian fiction.

Then LFL realized the market they had with TCW and the ratings they could get with putting bounty hunters and Mandalorians into it.

So when the announcement of Mandalorians in TCW was made, the fanboyz and fangurlz went insane! WOOO HOO! MANDALORIANS! YAAA--

Wait, though. KT decides to leave because of how LFL wants to handle the Mandalorians and isn't happy (understandably so) with how it'll effect her work.

Now all these thousands of nut-hugging fanboyz and fangurlz are in such an uproar about LFL is handling it and blaming them for KT's leaving.

And all I can do is sit back and laugh. Because its all these childish CW cartoons that caused it. All this CW crap that all the fan boyz and gurlz are so gaga over. All I can say is I find it hilarious how quick these fanz get into a frenzie over it.

I was discussing on another forum how TCW was nothing but marching through the perfectly fine and well established Clone War era material that was printed between Ep II and Ep III. Lots of good work done there and we could put it behind us, save for a few novels, such as KT's RC books.

Then....we came back to TCW. Why are we going back to TCW? Why do we need more tales of previously told story? Why not move on into the Dark Times or NJO or Legacy. We don't need MORE Clone Wars

I am, for one, able to say I was right that TCW does nothing but introduce pathetic stories and attempts to market on the previously well defined work that was Star Wars, and in the conquest of a quick ratings push and buck, tromps right through the professional work of established continuity.

</soapbox rant>

But that's my two cents.
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PostSubject: Re: KT Leaving Star Wars   Wed Aug 19, 2009 11:30 am

KT cant really complain about her rug being pulled out from under her when shes still holding the freshly pulled rug of those before her.

Dont get me wrong I love MOST of KTs Mandalorian work but if thats the nature of the beast then its the nature of the beast.
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PostSubject: Re: KT Leaving Star Wars   Wed Aug 19, 2009 3:05 pm

DoseOrdo wrote:
KT cant really complain about her rug being pulled out from under her when shes still holding the freshly pulled rug of those before her.

Dont get me wrong I love MOST of KTs Mandalorian work but if thats the nature of the beast then its the nature of the beast.

Totally agree with ya there.
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PostSubject: Re: KT Leaving Star Wars   Tue Aug 25, 2009 12:18 pm

I kinda agree with most of the things that have been said.

I can't really say anything about all this name-calling or whatever, but as far as a writer, I like Karen Traviss and will be sad to see her go.

However, if she did do half the things to people who didn't like her books, she was kinda asking for it.

The RC books were pretty good, and the LoTF (although I can see why people say she used her bias in those books) books were okay. Some people make good points about how she messed up the series, but I disagree with anyone who says she made Mandos 'gods.' They lost a battle to the Caedus and that drug probably wiped out a good number of people on Mandalore, not to mention make it impossible for anyone with relation to Fett unable to go on the planet. Not to mention Caedus slaughtered a Mando team and took Mirta Gev prisoner, and brainwashed Mirta against Boba. And I can't agree with anyone who says that Traviss made Boba a 'softie,' as far as being a grandfather goes. She didn't write the comic that introduced the idea of Boba getting married. So there was already evidence of Boba being a loving person back then.

I agree with the CW haters, as it is just a kids show and shouldn't be considered canon. A lot of crap goes on. Like I was watching the episodes with that Malevolence ship, and it just didn't make sense. A giant ion weapon is hardly something everyone should be all like 'this is bad, we're doomed' kind of thing. I think the whole Malevolence arc was just stupid.

Not to mention they're already setting themselves up for continuity issues. Like Anakin getting a padawan. And so far I haven't seen the series getting dark enough for Ashoka to die or something.

Not to mention Anakin is this huge hero, not one dark act, no, he's a saint. So just creating the Clone Wars series for dumb, especially just for marketing reasons as Dar said above. There's been enough on the Clone Wars, move on. And especially don't make it cartooney and kiddy. The original 2D was a lot better, I enjoyed that (even though that portrayed Jedi as total gods, taking down legions of droids and all) more.

Not to mention they mess up the view of Clone Troopers. Suddenly they all seem to actually have personalities and all, not the 'robots' that they had been depicted as before. I'm not saying I'm one of those people who thinks clones are just meat cans, I loved the RC books. But suddenly the regular trooper is all 'independent' and all. I mean, that'd be great, but doesn't add up. Not to mention none of them have second thoughts about serving in an army for a Republic they haven't even lived in. If you scrap their 'programming', they're actually gonna start using their freedom.

And I personally think people are going overboard on hating Traviss, like on the TOR thread. Not to mention half the people on there are ignorant and still believe that there is 'GOOD' and 'EVIL.' I think Traviss did a good job of describing that people are more complex than that.

Alright, rant over. That's my two creds. Hopefully I won't be assaulted like I was on TOR.
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