The Clone Wars

I just thought I'd start a little discussion about the latest Star Wars installment.

What do you guys think about the series? Good? Bad? Okay? How does it compare to Gendy Tartatovsky's short series that came out a few years ago on Cartoon Network, or even Karen Traviss's books?

You guys start!

We couldn't ask for anything better, I think. To begin with, it's marketed to children. An OK move if you ask me, I'm sure I would have loved something like this when I was growing up. I am not fond of Ahsoka for my nerdish reasons, but love her for what she represents - the poor girl fans who had been growing up with SW had always needed a Jedi hero who is of the female gender. It is a bit shallow series in a lot of ways, but it gets deep but sadly often too deep into the emotional area.
The Clones are alright there, but as with Traviss I think they are made out to be more victims than I would like them - and sadly and probably politically incorrectly I don't like too victimised characters. I feel for some but get annoyed by the rest. Rex is great - I think he is a character of great potential and would miss him if he'd get killed. Cody got expanded here and I like that.

Cad Bane is awesome, but I am annoyed by his name. I mean come on Lucas - the EU is liked by the majoity of the fandom! Darth Bane is known and loved in the EU and this is just pushing it. But his character is similar to Angel Eyes (Eastwood fan btw) and I applaud them for that - it reeks of coolness. I just prey they don't make too much of the Cowboy theme.

I like the series. At first I thought it was going to be a good idea but over all a disappointment. While the movie wasn't the greatest, there were some good things about it. I think it was better that I had grown to like the series before I watched the movie.

I thought I wasn't going to like Ahsoka, but I do. Anakin needs someone to bother him and give him depth. I liked that her first mission alone bombed. I also like that they've brought in different Jedi. Like Luminara, Kit, Mace and Aayla! I'm pretty sure that they'll bring in Quinlan. I hope it's awesome if they do. He was supposed to be in the Bombad Jedi episode but there was some issue and it didn't happen.

The whole "We're fighting for freedom and democracy!" kind of bugs me. I hope things get a little more confusing for the characters as far as what is wrong and right.

I want more trooper episodes too. I love the Rookies episode and also the one where Rex and Cody are trying to find the traitor. That episode was really good.

I love the animation despite some critics complaining about it. I like how stylized it is and how it's not realistic or cartoony. For the most part I think the voice acting is very good. Sometimes Anakin's voice bothers me when he's being serious.

And Rex is probably my favorite too. I love him. Has anyone read the Clone Wars books? I've only read the first. I need to get my hands on the second.

Whenever I watched this series Anakin made me think of Sam Winchester, played by Jared Padalecki in Supernatural...



Even his voice was very much like him and I was expecting him to say "dude" at any moment.


I liked Obi-Wan in that show but all the characters seemed to be well-written with their own shining moments. The clones were made a little bit over the top at times (seriously, British accents are NOT the New Zealander accent) and their facial traits are closer to middle-eastern than maori. That got me pissed.

And the constant incompatibilities with Traviss's works irked me to no end. No mention of the Mandalorian subculture at all, no Commandos, no cuy val'dar... It is as if the Republic Commando series had its own special franchise or sub-universe that "mainstream" screenwriters won't dare to borrow from.

What still kept me watching where the colorful pictures and combat animations. Also Asajj Ventress.

So, I have mixed feelings regarding the Clone Wars series. The older cartoon show was entertaining and I liked the idea of seeing the clones as nothing but badass soldiers. I do not care much for emotions when I watch Star Wars on my TV.

Daennika wrote:

I liked Obi-Wan in that show but all the characters seemed to be well-written with their own shining moments. The clones were made a little bit over the top at times (seriously, British accents are NOT the New Zealander accent) and their facial traits are closer to middle-eastern than maori. That got me pissed.

And the constant incompatibilities with Traviss's works irked me to no end. No mention of the Mandalorian subculture at all, no Commandos, no cuy val'dar... It is as if the Republic Commando series had its own special franchise or sub-universe that "mainstream" screenwriters won't dare to borrow from..

Well, I mostly worry for Obi-Wan's Engish accent. Having lived in the UK for 2 years I thought it was very bad. I mean, the actor couldn't even emulate the can't when it wasn't differentiated with can. Not to worry that he was trying so hard as to say the t's like a spit in many scenes.

Well, not to be critical.

Great topic, Catika!

I'm enjoying the different views being presented.

I have to say I'm still in favor of the old 2-D animation and at times have trouble with this 3-D video-gameish style. However, once I kind of ignore that and follow the story, I'm usually pretty hooked.

The Jar Jar episodes are the worst. If they totally eliminated him from any episodes in Season II, I'd be a happy camper.

My favorite episodes so far have been "Rookies" and "The Innocents of Ryloth." I enjoyed getting more into the Clones' perspectives. In "Ryloth," I was captivated by Waxer and Boil and their conflict over what to do with the Twi'lek child. My only disappointment was that at the end of the episode, they said they would return, and it got left without a follow up. I guess that's where we fanfiction writers can take over the story. (Plot Bunny!)

I agree with Daennika, however, that the series is missing something without Traviss' influence on the Clones regarding their Mandalorian upbringing. I believe I stated it earlier that the Clones do acknowledge themselves as "brothers," but does that mean the military version of brother (the common bond between soliders) or brothers because they all share the same genetics and upbringing? I would hope that in Season II Lucas will allow Traviss' work to be more prominent in the Clones and maybe even have an episode (or story arc) with a Commando Squad pulling off an impossible mission.

Overall, I've watched every episode and can't wait for Season II, but if I had a little more pull in what happens, I certainly would have Traviss personally oversee an episode or two and have her "fix" what's missing between her stories and the TV series.

EDIT: Forgot to mention that originally I didn't care much for Rex. Then, I read The Clone Wars novel by Traviss, and she changed my perspective on him so that I understand him more now and appreciate his character. I also am half-way through No Prisoners (it's easy to read when you're waiting 4 hours for a medical test!!), and I like the story quite a bit. There's probably too much Jedi in it for many, but without giving too much away, I like some of the characters that were brought in. They were an unexpected surprise, and I believe they were in a previous novel that I read probably about 10-15 years ago. If I remember correctly, their flashbacks were told to Luke through a ghost. But, that's enough without writing spoilers.

Ms.MaraJade wrote:

Forgot to mention that originally I didn't care much for Rex. Then, I read The Clone Wars novel by Traviss, and she changed my perspective on him so that I understand him more now and appreciate his character.

I forgot that I read the book before the series. I knew that the story was probably safe with Traviss so I borrowed it from the library. The whole Jabba thing was boring, but I loved Rex and how put some sense into Ahsoka. After I read the book I tried harder to catch the show on tv. The first episode I saw was Rookies too. I'm kind of in love with Rex. I have the little action figure of him and the Mighty Muggs one too.

It could and probably is they weren't really concerned about the accents being accurate, but maybe they didn't want it to be completely recognizable, or they were more concerned about having the voice fit the character they wanted rather than the region they were based off of. They're not really supposed to be from New Zealand or the UK.

I'm all right with the clones looking Arabic but that could just be because I find it aesthetically pleasing. Maybe they wanted them to look more foreign or exotic. Or somehow they want to teach the children to embrace Arabic people?

And does anyone else think the clones walk funny? I get that they're in armor... but still. And are places with more Rutian Twi'leks invaded more often or are they really not that rare? They're supposed to be the second most rare skin tone. I feel like I've seen more blue Twi'leks than any other color. And what happens when you mix skin tones? Do they mix like paints would? Could you make purple with a blue Twi'lek and a red Twi'lek? Does yellow and blue make green? Does blue and orange make brown?

[quote="Tenna"]

Ms.MaraJade wrote:

And what happens when you mix skin tones? Do they mix like paints would? Could you make purple with a blue Twi'lek and a red Twi'lek? Does yellow and blue make green? Does blue and orange make brown?

I would imagine it would be like guinea pigs. Certain genes are dominant and completely take over, and sometimes the combination results in a new, completely different color (green + blue = ... purple?!).

I more or less reflect all of your opinions. I will admit, I was disappointed when I heard that not one of my friends liked the movie (which caused me not to bother to see it :/). Then the first two episodes I saw didn't impress me at all (I can't think of the titles, but it was the one with Yoda and the three clones on some crazy planet, and the one where the droids were blowing up escape pods to kill Plo Kun and some other clones). I didn't like the pacing or the scripting at all, plus I was already skeptical and expecting something KT-worthy.

Then Tenna made me watch the episodes she had on her DVR and I changed my mind. I still had a bit of disappointment in how much the series lacked the Mandalorian influences, and NOBODY has acknowledged commandos at all! They have everything BUT commandos.But overall, the series has given the clones a lot of character. A lot of SW fans who have never played RepCom, read the books, or even read the Clone Wars comic book series, got the whole "robotic obedience" idea from Order 66 in Revenge of the Sith. So yay for this series.

I love the Rookies episode, and the Ryloth episodes were definitely the best of the first season. I'm looking forward to seeing how they handle the next season.

Daennika wrote:

Whenever I watched this series Anakin made me think of Sam Winchester, played by Jared Padalecki in Supernatural...



Even his voice was very much like him and I was expecting him to say "dude" at any moment.

Ohhh man, I was wondering why Anakin sounded so familiar for some reason. Now I know, and now I can't unsee it. Frack.


I'm going to say I mostly agree with all the sentiments in this thread thusfar.

Personally... I've really been enjoying the Clone Wars series, but I cheated. I didn't watch the show until after Season 1 was finished. I had been too close, too strongly opinionated on Mandalorians and Kar'buir's commandos, that I couldn't take the series at face value. So, I decided to cool off and let the show run, and then come back/catch up on it once the season had its run.

So, now that I'm able to see a little more clearly, I say I really enjoy the series so far. At first, I really disliked Ahsoka... but she's grown on me, and her input is far more fascinating than that of the other Jedi (but then again, I'm biased--I don't really care much for Knight/Master Jedi as they've been done to death since the beginning, but I find the padawan and younger points of view fascinating).

Ahsoka, in general, is refreshing to me. Despite being involved in ... certain ... questionable parts of the fandom, I hope they don't make her fall in love or something to that extent. It would be nice to see a main female heroine who didn't fall ill to the Love Bug.

/begin fearful rambling
Is it bad that I'm kind of glad they haven't touched the Mando influences yet? I want to see Commandos, but I do not do not do not want to see the non-mando kinds. I know that there must be some squad that exists out there that isn't but to include a squad that is non mando in CW would devastate me in ways I can't begin to describe. I'm actually pretty damn afraid that G.Lucas will simply write off all of Kar'buir's work as "nonsense" and "never happened," or that all Mandalorians are evil all the time.

I mean, it's not exactly a far-fetched fear, is it? I'm on the line here. I want to see Mandos in the show, but I don't. I want to see Commandos, but the Mando kind.

I mean... I heard that they were considering it? Maybe? But they didn't want to include Mando because "people wouldn't understand." It's no different than Huttese, just include subtitles on the bottom...

Ah, the clone wars.

In short, it rocks house. I love this new installment, even if the Commandos have yet to show up.
My favorite part so far has been the clones themselves. This is everything Kal Skirata wants them to be seen as. Living, breathing soldiers, all of them unique individuals who feel, and who fight
not from indoctrination but honest courage.

The scene in 'Innocents of Ryloth' where Waxer comforted Numa was easily the most moving thing I've seen on TV in a long time.

MORE CLONES LESS GLOWBAT NINJA'S!!!!!!!!!!!!



I am so tired of the main-stays in Star Wars. Unless it's a Vader story, I'm not interested. I'd love to see more Clones (a la Rookies) with no Jedi interfering. I'm hoping next season also brings in some Mando's since this Cade bounty hunter fellow seems to be a match for the clones.

Well that's why you're in this forum Bastion, and not in other places (like the force net). Even saying so much as "I'm sick of seeing these damn Jedi everywhere" would probably get you flame trained and then banned.

I am so, so very sick of these God Moding Glowbat Ninjas. I understand that Jedi have their hand in everything, but I'm sick and tired of seeing them everywhere. They've not only been done to death, but as the series goes on theyy seem to get more and more invincible, trumped only by inane and highly inaccurate "accidents". (Luminara's fight with Ventress, for example)


Sigh. Frustration.

Bastion wrote:

MORE CLONES LESS GLOWBAT NINJA'S!!!!!!!!!!!!

I am so tired of the main-stays in Star Wars. Unless it's a Vader story, I'm not interested. I'd love to see more Clones (a la Rookies) with no Jedi interfering. I'm hoping next season also brings in some Mando's since this Cade bounty hunter fellow seems to be a match for the clones.

AMEN. I mean, it's called the damn CLONE wars for a reason...

And yeah, when they mentioned more mercs or w/e, the reasonable part of my brain told me not to hope, but the fangirl in me said "THEY MIGHT BRING A MANDO INTO IT!!"

I'm honestly worried that they'll butcher Mandalorians if/when they bring a Mando into it.

I'll be very unhappy, but complete unsurprised.

Ladyofevilness wrote:

The prequels got me into star wars also KOTOR II i loved a lot. I never liked star wars until I watched them. I was never a fan or the originals. I mean yes there are parts I enjoyed, like seeing Mr. Solo be cast in carbon (one second looking very serious then in this silly face I couldn't help but laugh at.), but over all no. But with ever reincarnation of star wars there are millions of people that get introduced to it or become fans.

Aww you didn't like the originals? Well, that's okay. I first saw the originals as a little star-struck kid, so I'm sure watching them over now will probably be very much different than seeing them as a child. I'm not sure if I'd still feel as amazed by them, to be honest.

I don't blame you for liking the prequels. Only the most hardcore of hardcore fans would be rude though, and it seems the fandom is filled with these obnoxious people... (usually the very same people who despise the cartoon series that this thread is about, lol)


Another thing I'm very concerned about is how the makers of The Clone Wars will handle how war affects the characters of the series. I've been reading and watching interviews, and the more I see, the more worried I become. Fighting a war does not make you a bad ass, hard, mature person... It has painful, long lasting, incredibly damaging affects, ESPECIALLY for children (of which Ahsoka is one).

She's only fourteen years of age. If this was a war in our world, the entire Jedi Order would likely be punished severely for the use of child soldiers. Not to mention the long lasting affects on her mental development.

If they don't handle this right, if they treat war like a "coming of age" experience rather than what it really is... I don't know what I'll do.

Anecdote wrote:

Aww you didn't like the originals? Well, that's okay. I first saw the originals as a little star-struck kid, so I'm sure watching them over now will probably be very much different than seeing them as a child. I'm not sure if I'd still feel as amazed by them, to be honest.

A little off-topic, but: the originals are still good. Maybe not Return of the Jedi. But Empire Strikes Back is legitimately an entertaining and suspenseful film. A New Hope is also good too, but I think the budget helps ESB a lot. :p I did read a pretty harsh critique of ROTJ, however, and while it used to be my favorite of the originals, it is now my least favorite.

Anecdote wrote:

Another thing I'm very concerned about is how the makers of The Clone Wars will handle how war affects the characters of the series. I've been reading and watching interviews, and the more I see, the more worried I become. Fighting a war does not make you a bad ass, hard, mature person... It has painful, long lasting, incredibly damaging affects, ESPECIALLY for children (of which Ahsoka is one).

Precisely! I get mixed signals from this series on their view of war. First off, they gave the droids a tiny sense of sentience, which makes it... awkward.

Then the clones are killed off so easily and no one is sad about it. Prime example: In the episode Rookies, when one of them gets eaten by that giant eel thing, they literally shrugged and kept going. I think it's a matter of not upsetting children, but seriously? Some countries are at war right now and kids in the US could have friends and relatives in combat, and we're going to treat clone soldiers killed in action like it's a minor annoyance? Then at the end of the episode when Hevy (I think) blows himself up to save the others, I felt a pretty emotional response to that. But it was sort of disregarded and the glory was given to the other two clones at the end. Gaaaah.

They're definitely focused on the action and the glorification of war here. It's sort of sick. It's still an entertaining series and they don't always skirt around the issue of mass death, but overall, yes, it's a "coming of age" story and not a "war is hell" statement.

The books handle it pretty well.
I'm trying to ignore my inner self screaming at me that lo' and behold, their reactions are not right!

Ugh.



Well, I guess that's what fanfiction is for, right? So we can have fanon actually seriously pursue the effects of war (which is, in fact, hell like you said), as opposed to the FLOWERS AND SUNSHINE that the show seems to be relatively closer to.

Because I feel this is relative to the topic, I'll go on to say that this reminds me-- there's an outstanding author that is currently writing a series focusing on said topic.

The author is known as fialleril, and the first story the first I've read is titled "and they dreamed of freedom birds"
The series is titled Nervous Conditions.

Catika wrote:

Then the clones are killed off so easily and no one is sad about it. Prime example: In the episode Rookies, when one of them gets eaten by that giant eel thing, they literally shrugged and kept going. I think it's a matter of not upsetting children, but seriously? Some countries are at war right now and kids in the US could have friends and relatives in combat, and we're going to treat clone soldiers killed in action like it's a minor annoyance? Then at the end of the episode when Hevy (I think) blows himself up to save the others, I felt a pretty emotional response to that. But it was sort of disregarded and the glory was given to the other two clones at the end. Gaaaah.

They're definitely focused on the action and the glorification of war here. It's sort of sick. It's still an entertaining series and they don't always skirt around the issue of mass death, but overall, yes, it's a "coming of age" story and not a "war is hell" statement.

I though the rookie's response to Cutup's demise was more training and focus than a shrug.
Mourn the fallen after the victory is won.

I do very much agree with how the clones have the short end of the stick though. It seems like Anakin is the only one who give a damn about his troops.

I've only watched bits and pieces as I'd been told by soem people it was horrible and should never watch it...however since I've read all the comments posted here I feel intrigued and will probably watch the series and the movie to see for myself. No comments here as I haven't seen enough to make a valid opinion.

So i've managed to watch the entire 1st season, as well as catch up on the second season. I dont know what to expect when the mandalorians finaly show. They made such a big deal about this season being about the bounty hunters but after, what 2 episodes, Cad Bane was out sight. I cant image that the Mandalorians will have alot of time in the spot light.

lol watch like Cody or Rex say "whats a Mandalorian"...

Catika wrote:

Then the clones are killed off so easily and no one is sad about it. Prime example: In the episode Rookies, when one of them gets eaten by that giant eel thing, they literally shrugged and kept going. I think it's a matter of not upsetting children, but seriously? Some countries are at war right now and kids in the US could have friends and relatives in combat, and we're going to treat clone soldiers killed in action like it's a minor annoyance?

Agree 100%. In the US and other countries' armies, the soldiers perhaps know each other intimately for some months, and when a member of a squad is killed, their brothers in arms literally fall apart. The clone soldiers know each others for all their lives, and it's unrealistic that they would simply rationalise it with "oh it's a war, people die in war. Especially soldiers." since real life soldiers don't. But then again, all SW media does defy science on many levels anyway. The clone army is an army of people who are all of the same genes, look exactly alike and indeed forge relationships as brothers from day one. If you were to go into combat with your own bro or sis, and he or she would die, you would be completely crushed as a person. Multiply that with whatever number and you've got the clone army.

I think its that type of thought process that LA is trying to get away from with the changes to KT's work. Like I said before the clones original purpose was a flesh answer too droids. They live, eat, breath, and sleep training and orders for their very shortened life time and do what they where created for. The clones have been so glorified as individuals and I dont think that was ever the point.

Prime example... Cmdr Cody is Obi wans right hand for years... then with one order he blasts Obi Wan without hesitation.

I saw the movie and I didn't like it, at all (I think I dubbed it the "cgi abomination") then, a few weeks ago, my brother rented the series and I got interested when I saw "ohmygod! there are dead bodies on the screen!" I thought this meant that the series was directed at an older audience of kids and might get into the whole moral ambiguity and whatnot of the entire thing. I was wrong, but I still like the series for what it is. At first Ahsoka annoyed me with her attitude because I figured a young apprentice who had been raised in the temple wouldn't be so... disrespectful, I guess (that doesn't seem like quite the right word for it but oh well.) I like the Ryloth episodes best (this might also have to do with the fact that I love the twi'leks.)

Is it just me or did Kit Fisto's Padawan have a slightly racist accent? In fact, that entire episode bothered me the most because of the clone deaths and the fact that Master Fisto didn't seem to care that his former padawan got ripped up right before his eyes. The clones are like brothers but don't alot of masters have parental relationships with their apprentices? Even in a teacher-student relationship it would be awful and this was a student who had just passed the trials. They couldn't have been so far apart emotionally in so little time. Kit just moves on because Vebb (yay wookiepedia) "deserved it" for being a little impatient. /end ranting

mando-mantis wrote:

Is it just me or did Kit Fisto's Padawan have a slightly racist accent? In fact, that entire episode bothered me the most because of the clone deaths and the fact that Master Fisto didn't seem to care that his former padawan got ripped up right before his eyes. The clones are like brothers but don't alot of masters have parental relationships with their apprentices? Even in a teacher-student relationship it would be awful and this was a student who had just passed the trials. They couldn't have been so far apart emotionally in so little time. Kit just moves on because Vebb (yay wookiepedia) "deserved it" for being a little impatient. /end ranting

the latest episode explains this some (without giving away the storyline) it shows that while the masters do care that Jedi should not be so attached and a master must be ready to "let go" when the time comes. They practically look down on Anikin for caring to much when the little orange chick is in danger.

(cant spell names so didnt try lol)

Dose, I was going to make that same point (without having seen the series save for maybe two episodes ), but since you beat me to the punch, I'll elaborate...

There is no emotion; there is peace.
There is no ignorance; there is knowledge.
There is no passion; there is serenity.
There is no chaos; there is harmony.
There is no death; there is the Force.
— The Jedi Code

Right there, two of the rules Jedi live and are raised by are "do not feel emotions" and "even more specifically, do not feel passion (be it positive or negative)." This is one of the (many) big reasons a couple people I know (Kyr'ika and myself, a few others I'm sure) cannot stand Jedi; they're so restrictive on personal matters like that. Yeah, sure, if you don't have any self-control at all and decide to go out for revenge and let that feeling take over, you could go Dark Side...but instead of letting that small chance for the people they take in to do it slip by, they beat it into the heads of infants that they kidnap from their parents (no ifs, ands, or buts about the baby stealing, folks!) that they must be emotionless Jedi robots and do as they say. They strip away a lot of what makes people be people, without batting an eye, and don't consider just working harder on teaching self-control and self-awareness, so you can catch yourself when you do dangerous things.

This is where the handful I know of diverged off to Mandalorians; they care about their family (no matter who or what their family is), they teach each other with love and affection (generally), they don't force their children to grow up lacking the ability to care about other people and avenge them should it be deemed necessary, and if there is any baby-napping, it was inevitable because they killed the rest of the kid's family so they take it in to give the kid a better chance of surviving.

...Wait, what were we on about? I somehow turned this into an anti-Jedi rant. XD Let's see...Oh, yeah. That bit you didn't like about how that Jedi acted was just how Jedi are, because they're a bunch of emotionless di'kute (oho, a potential chance to check your Mando'a dictionary, Mantis! ). I figure they probably put the Jedi Code into the stuff they essentially programmed into the Clones, which could be tied into the thing in RepCom about disobedient Clones that showed too much individuality (which can be tied to emotions!) were "reformed" or whatever they called it...and it would explain why most of the clones don't flip out when their brother dies. Not visibly, anyway.

I see... wow... I think I've just witnessed the smashing of part of my childhood... kriffing glowbat ninjas betrayed me

Melyc'inya wrote:

because they're a bunch of emotionless di'kute (oho, a potential chance to check your Mando'a dictionary, Mantis! ).

please, isn't it a rule that you have to learn the bad words of a language first?